The hospital first opened its doors in 1904 in Norwich, Connecticut. It was built in an idyllic location chosen for its therapeutic properties overlooking the River Thames.
The Norwich Insane Asylum was built isolated from civilization, which worked to its benefit as it began to grow during its early years sprouting new buildings that accompanied the original construction (see aerial view of the hospital here). These new construction projects included patient wards, staff cottages, laboratories and workshops. All of the structures were interconnected by a large network of underground utility tunnels. These tunnels transported electricity, hot water, and patients to various areas on the grounds. The hospital remained self-sufficient, almost like a small town, with its own power plant, pump house, working farm, kitchen, theater and church.
Over 3,000 patients and 1,000 employees were residents on the asylum grounds in the 1950’s.
Slowly patients began to leave Norwich State Hospital due to deinstitutionalization and it permanently closed its doors in 1996. Since then time has basically stood still on the property with a few exceptions. Currently there is talk about converting the grounds into a theme park, but nothing has been set in stone.
After a long tedious drive we leave the car in a commuter parking lot close to the buildings. Ever the vigilant group of explorers we notice a State Trooper making his rounds and dive into the forest for cover. Luckily we outsmarted the police yet again and after regrouping walk along the Thames River for a few hundred feet. We finally see the abandoned pump house looming in the distance and decide to make this our entryway into the campus.
This site has a reputation for being well guarded, well patrolled, and does not take kindly to trespassers. I am always on edge when exploring across the Atlantic and the numerous “State Property – No Trespassing” signs that litter the grounds did not bode well for my paranoia. Instead of exposing ourselves above ground to security and prying eyes, we decided to take the underground route through the utility tunnels.
Using the tunnels we explored many buildings without ever being forced to go outside. This method of travel was soon confirmed to be the safest. On our first attempt to venture outside we were only a few feet away from a security officer in a black uniform. Fortunately he didn’t look our way and we quickly receded back into the tunnel network. For a while we hid in the abandoned theater so we could look around the campus without being seen.
This encounter with security dampened our spirits and made our visit a whole lot shorter than we would have liked. We made our grande exit through the empty chapel, this allowed us to avoid walking back through the forest. As we were walking back to the commuter lot to pickup our car we noticed the State Trooper had been watching us as we suspiciously walked down the road. I wonder where we went to and were coming back from?!
Archive document introducing a new therapy (click to enlarge):
Special thanks to Dr. Bob for sharing the old postcards.
WATERBURY, Conn. - Police in Connecticut charged a 19-year-old man with raping and killing a 16-year-old girl after the two walked together to a closed and decaying religious attraction.
Francisco Cruz, of Waterbury, is charged with murder and sexual assault in the death of his friend Chloe Ottman. Her body was found near Holy Land USA on Saturday.
Police say Cruz admitted that he killed Ottman on Thursday evening and led investigators to her body.
The 18-acre former religious attraction is on a hillside overlooking Waterbury. It featured a "Hollywood"-style Holy Land USA sign and replicas of Bethlehem and Jerusalem made from scrap wood, chicken wire, sheet-metal and other materials. It closed years ago, though its 50-foot cross is still illuminated at night.
And another thing..After reading the minutes from the PRA's monthly meeting You'll read that they ordered more "no trespassing" signs for the pond view side of the property to "warn trespassers to stay away from the pond" Not for nothing but this really pisses me off. I live in an area where you can buy a "public watershed" pass and fish almost all of the public resiviors etc..Granted there are alot of area's where the richy rich folks have private access to ponds and fishing them is illegal..But what the hell is the problem at the NSH site? ..people like me use tools like BingMaps..If i see a pond I want to fish..I add a pushpin and upload it to my GPS..I fish it..Now if I were there and I had a bunch of security/state cops waving there finger at me calling me a trespasser..I would be livid.. They didn't put that pond there..They didn't put the bass there..Why keep people from fishing it? ..it's not a resivior.. It should be legal.. PRA needs to back off a bit.
JPT..My friend.
I agree to an extent.. Either letting the place rot..or demolishing the site are not the only two options Preston has had here..King's Park in NY has a hospital much much larger than NSH..they turned most of it into a recreational walking park..with tid bits of history on each building..the woods behind the complex was turned into a nature bike/walk trail..and the remaining buildings are still used to this day for elderly care and even a clinic of sorts dealing with Dept of Social Services.. Now..I know what your saying..."but Norwich is falling apart" ..Of course it is now.. But had the right steps been taken from day 1 this could have been a good option for the site..Never mind profits etc..Your spending a bizzilion dollars a year on "maintenance" costs and security.. Create a use for the ball field and open a nature trail leading to the Thames for local fishermen.. Kettle was being used for town meetings until it was deemed to have an inefficient sprinkler system..I doubt that the installation of a sprinkler system would have been as costly as it is for them to hire security and such.. Kettle could have also very easily have been converted to a local emergency clinic. Had the site been left in the right hands I think that PRA and Norwich would have had much more options for the site..Plant some flowers..cut the grass..and not for nothing.. HAD they kept up on the condition of the building and made use for some sections of the site..Trespassers would have been a bit more weary of entering such a complex..without the knowledge of there being no powers/alarms/people etc..you wouldn't have had as many people running the halls of the now abandoned complex. Just a thought..or a dream I suppose.
Ken mentioned that mental illness has not yet been eradicated. I wholeheartedly agree, in fact, its probably on the upswing as we learn more and more about whats truly going on in our heads.
Is there still a requirement for mental health institutions? (Which should be called "mental ILLNESS institutions, because if you are healthy, you dont go there as a patient !) Anyway, YES, absolutely. BUT, the condition of NSH was such that it was no longer feasable to be used for that purpose. The contaminents my erstwhile partners in crime have have posted below, along with the tremendous overhead in maintaining that huge campus, simply made it no longer an economically viable facility. Contrary to popular local legend, they did not simply open the doors and let the patients roam down into Norwich, or become controlling members of the PRA, the people were simply shipped to another facility, supposedly better suited budget wise, to the states needs.
Bottom line is always the Almighty Dollar.
Now, the deterioration of NSH is beyond repair in most cases. Sure, there are some buildings that could be resucitated. but if no one wants to take the time and money to do it, then one of two scenarios will occur: 1) They will opt to demolish it, or 2) they will allow the deterioration to continue, beyong the point of no return.
Yes, there still is, and will in the forseeable future be, a need for facilities to tend to the needs of people who are mentally unstable. Sad, with all the technology we have today, that more cant be done to help these people. NSH is not one of them.
And on another note...
Triangle Wire in Jewett City is now a parking lot. Its amazing just how small the lot actually was, it looked so huge when the factory was there. Eons back, it was Plastic Wire and Cable, my Dad worked there. Now, its just a big slab.
That's where I stand.. Reading the minutes from the PRA meetings.. I think it's ridiculous that anyone whom lives in Preston would ever say "good Job" ..are you insane? Preston has been siphoning monies off of the property for years it seems. The money allotted for the site obviously doesn't go towards what it is supposed to.. Maintenance costs? ..Isn't this coming from the same board that said they didn't realize the condition of the site until further inspection? ..if I were to fork out tax dollars for something I would wanna see it for my own eyes before giving out money..or excepting any bids on said job.. Seems they have been doing it down the grapevine for quite some time now..
Read the minutes.."grass is being mowed today" ..I wouldn't take your word for it..I would go there and want to see these little men on ride-along mowers..and planting flowers and such.. Admin needs to be winterized..? ..shouldn't it have remained winterized since day one? ..that would be maintenance ..In my eyes..Maintenance would have been maintaining the quality of the site since day one. I would have let the groundskeepers remain on site..Security costs? ..surely the Security prior to closing the site would have been just as efficient as the garbage they put out thousands more for a month..
I don't know much about the type of people in Preston..Maybe they're all richy rich people who almost need to throw money at people and not worry about where it goes..Maybe it's a giant money laundering scam with Norwich in the mix..
with the exception with the EPA, most gov programs is no one cares what happen with there money after it is given out. when it come to most grants the money is there and you need to apply for them and if you qualify based on what you told them what your going to do with the money and bang its yours. ethically you are supposed to use it for what it is intended and some grant require you match up to 100% money of the grant to ensure you use the grant for what it was intended. the biggest problem with the PRA is they have no real plan and every week they have a whim of what is important. the money for the alarm system came out of a grant, one week they needed a new lawn mower, they even went as far as to go to the finance board to have money set aside for one thing to put in another account for the lawn mower and the suddenly they didn't but the mower or any mower for that matter, mean while they moved money for the mower, never got one and at the finance board one of there selling points was "the mower can be used by others in the city if it was needed) and now they are still using the old mower... that seems to work if anyone hasn't noticed. so you have to wonder what they really need the moved money for? but you never see anyone at the finance board ask the PRA what happen to the money and move it back to where it was to start, instead they all just forget about it and then the PRA cries when there budget gets cut until they get it back and the citys taxes go up.
Its a double edge sword in that I am glad I don't live in a town like there's where there is a huge lax in what happens to the town money while taxes go up,up,up. but also if I did live in the town they would roll there eyes every time I walk into the PRA, Finance, town, and education meetings to keep them honest on what they are doing with my tax monies. I can't believe these people who show up at these PRA meetings and tell them what a good job the PRA is doing and we are to think they are not friends of the board members so it gets on record what a great job the board is doing. games, games and more games
Regardless of the fact that Asbestos comes from the earth itself ( Metamorphic rock deposits ) I frown upon the idea of someone cutting a few corners and just demolishing a (mass) of buildings without taking proper protocol.. I have seen abatement processes take place in colleges and old factories in my area..Buildings that at there largest are the size of (kettle) itself..The process takes a significant amount of time.. As would soil cleanup.. Like I said..they run test pre-cleanup and post-cleanup.. Which can take a few years at best for a site the size of the NSH.. Not only this..but how do they plan on protecting the nearby river from said contaminates..?? Surely the DEP would frown upon a few dead trophy trout that were stocked this year..I don't know about you..But I am surely interested in seeing how this all plays out..I feel like just because the State has there hand in the cookie jar..All this will be very Hush Hush..
However..Looking at the applied grants for the PRA.. You'd have to wonder how exactly they would be able to hide that they plan to cut corners with such a large scale project. The Government and other (agencies) are forking out quite a bit of cheese for the PRA..Maybe rather than a simple E-mail or fax from the PRA regarding the placement of said (funds) ..these agencies would like daily pictures of the routine in which this money is going towards..
PCB is another contaminant on sight its oil that is used inside old electrical transformers... oil people, not something you can just bury in the ground, if you put it in barrels it will just leak.
mercury is in the florescent light bulbs and in the old thermostats
asbestos in plaster was used in the 50's, 60's and 70's and was used in decorative plaster, it was used for it insulation features as well to add strength. it is a very versatile Mattel and was used for a lot of stuff we use fiberglass for now. think about it almost everything we used asbestos for we now use with fiberglass.
oh and for those of you who think of asbestos as this evil in the world..... do you even know where it comes from........ yea I can sit here and tell you but I think that was seed enough to get you to look things up on your own now.
I will say this I walk into my friends auto shop all the time and lol because there i a recycle your battery poster hanging there and It say protect your future from these contaminants, and well lets face it, we have been brain washed by the media and the government into believing these things. whats in a automotive car battery.... lead hydrochloric acid, sulfur.... all natural ingredients for you nature loving organic eating fools out there, wantt to guess where we get these items from the........... the earth...... ok I know, I know lead has been linked to creating stupid children so parents run surround and make sure there children are safe, put you little billly or sally in a bubble so they don't get stupid from lead by biting the window sill that was painted by lead paint and we put them if front of the wii and play video games because hey thats been proven to make your child smart..... yea ok they can't even spell wii correctly at what point was it written wii the people or is it wii the piiple..... any way in done
You do bring up a good point about burying the remaining hazards.. I ranted about this months ago..However I could vent. A few months back when they started claiming that the tunnels had fallen in on themselves..(yet there was a guy operating (no) backhoe) I video taped the guy for about 40 minutes literally digging up a section and back-filling it with the debris..Not for nothing..but there are other hazards to be read about..Surely Ken has read up on the PRA's estimate for contaminates.. They claim that in order to use the property (after) demolition occurs..complete soil treatment along with groundwater issues must be taken care of..Not only this but I have seen the maps of the sewage drains..along with the water and utility pipes..Reading more about PRA they claim that sewage has been pumping back and forth due to a (faulty) check valve..
If you bought a house and had any of the above issues..It would be BIG money..Surely Preston couldn't have known about all of the issues that would go along with the property..however..If you look at the big picture..A site as large as the wich even completely (building free) just a dirt lot..Would cost way more than the estimated values put forward by PRA..Not to mention that Soil tests are actually done in intervals. I used to work at a marine terminal where oil had leaked in an old pipeline into the soil..It took nearly two years for them to finally finish the investigation and claim the site (clean) of all contaminates..not to mention the area was as large as a soccer field..(much smaller than what we are looking at here.
Along with the issue of soil,groundwater,sewage,utilities..we also have the buildings themselves..Some of the buildings fall into the year (category) of when they used to mix Asbestos into the plaster..therefore.. You'd have to insure the citizens of Preston that the air quality on the Thames wouldn't be effected as they tear down buildings with tons of this plaster littering the site...Let's keep going.. The fluro lights that cover every inch of the interior of the hospital have extremely high levels of mercury in them..(surely Preston would take into account they'd have to remove these items) rather than leave them inside and doze it over..
The state is in on the whole thing..I have E-Mails and have had phone conversations regarding a lot of the concerns going along with the demolition of the site.. I told the state I have a video of a state worker back-filling the same tunnels that were said to be collapsed due to the age and neglect of the area. Media coverage will definitely be in order as soon as I start to see signs of major demo going on.. If you don't see a contractor there for a year ahead of time for abatement..or DEP..or EPA..or any of them.. You better bet the state is going to have a red face..
Being a truck driver I know that sometimes state contracts and government contracts are sometimes given a bit of slack..As far as ..what we haul and how heavy the load can be..etc. But they'd have to do some serious explaining when a truck full of debris is going down the road and throwing off all these contaminates into the air..
Ahhh..im done
ok i read JPTs post this mourning and had all day to think about what I want to say with out going off on a full blown rant. I guess we have come full circle because I was thinking about this a few weeks ago and am glad someone else brought it up, kinda.
Lets start with what should and should not be preserved for historic sake. Should I, no I have not done any thing note worthy enough to be documented in such a way that my home and my possessions should be set aside and a group to take over and my stuff suddenly gets put on a tour guide. But this happens to people all the time. My short list of people I don't think should have tours and do. (don't get mad at me) 1) Laura Ingells Wilder, 2) Lucille Ball, 3) Elvis Priestly. OK these people where great for there times but lets face it, how many of you had to Google Laura Ingalls Wilder just to figure out who she is and then you thought to your self who give a crap about her. These are what I consider short time heroes and lets face it grace land will be condos or a golf course some day.
Now for some real history. There are a few places that are still around the wouldn't be if things were done then the way they are now. There are structures all over the would and they are called ruins. For a reason. These structures also out lived there usefulness and closed and peoples stopped taking care if them until the started falling apart. Now as for NSH to out live its usefulness would be like saying that mental illness has been cured and there is no reason for places like mental hospitals any more. Has mental illness been cured, no, is there still a need for places like NSH. Yes the place was once a completely independent city on it own. Instead of closing it should have been sold and made a private hospital and all this should have been done before the place started falling down. If they had sold it back in 1996 for $1 to a private investor think of all the money the state would have saved vs all the other bills they had been paying for just to keep it there for Preston to tear down later.
So let talk about a few things in the world that would be gone if the PRA was in charge. (this could be fun) lets start with the Parthenon, this was a temple built in Athens Greece and was to for the greek goddess Athena and was completed in 438 BC it has with stood many owners and many uses. It been a temple, a church, a mosque, on September 26, 1687 it was partially destroyed by a mortar. It was then looted for its sculptures and the Greek government is still trying to get them back. They can be seen all over the world but belongs In the temple. Now lets say hypothetically speaking of course the Greek government sold the Parthenon to Preston for $1. what would the PRA have done with it. Well I imagine they would have procrastinated about it and how it was pillaged for all the things that might have been worth money, all of this was done of course before they took ownership. They would explain the Parthenon is not worth anything anymore and should be torn down, maybe a nice corporate park or golf course would work there. They wouldn't bother restoring the place and hey you could never get people to pay to go on tour of the place, its a frigging ruin after all.
OK I know what your thinking you can't compare NSH and the Parthenon they are completely different things with completely different purposes. All I will say is pff I can do what I want
lets do it again this time with the Leaning Tower of Pisa ok well lets face it this structure has never had anything of real value inside of it but I bet the Preston Building inspector could have signed off on the shitty foundation and shitty soil. Not to mention the bad engineering that was involved in the building of this bell tower. I would imagine if Pisa were to sell this building to Preston for $1 they would apply for a grant to save this building, install an alarm and install an electrical panel on the outside of the building on the church side of the building. The grant would not be written to include the church and sence nobody thinks of the church the tower was built for the would just talk the Pisa historical society the church is not worth anything and get the OK to abate and demolish the church and put in the leaning Lick and Putt ice cream stand, don't forget to visit our souvenir stand.
I said I can do what I want
like I said who and I to say what is historic. And who the hell is Preston. Buy a place for $1 and cry that they would have to spend money to fix the place up. Maybe they should have kept there $1 and put it to the leak in the basement of there school. And while your at it, if your going to cap a hazzardest was dump do it right, if you bury asbestos and the cap fails again you better up the cites insurance policy because lets face if your residents will hire Erin Brockovich and you will really wish you saved that $1
Hey, look pal, I dont think I like your attitude! Where do you get off...oh, wait.. um, sorry. I thought you were talking about Ken and I. Sorry again.
JPT says with a big wide grin!
‘Beavis and Butt-head’ Are Back by Tracy Phillips Jul 14th, 2010
Deadbeats, slackers and misfits rejoice! ‘Beavis and Butt-head‘ are making a comeback… “Heh Heh.”
MTV plans to resurrect the pop-culturally iconic ’90s cartoon with a modern update, reports the New York Post.
The move is reportedly one step in MTV’s new strategic plan to return to its original format–showing music videos. The network has been criticized for years for losing its identity after a programming slate dominated by non-music related reality shows, like the recently departed ‘The Hills’ and ‘Jersey Shore,’ took over the airwaves.
The new Beavis and Butt-head would remain as we knew them, perpetual high-schoolers, according to the Post, “but it would be updated so that the pals — who obsessively watch music videos on a battered TV set — could lob their snarky comments at more current targets like Lady Gaga.”
Created by Mike Judge (’King of the Hill’), the animated series premiered on MTV in 1993 and ran until 1997.
The dumb-and-dumber dudes also made the leap to the big screen in 1996 for the movie ‘Beavis and Butt-head Do America.
OKay OKay..this is interesting to me.. Year by Year there is always some new "epidemic" in the teen-age drug craze.. Well apparently the newest issue that seems to be crossing the globe isn't something ingested or smoked or injected..Nope. Brainwaves.. I said it..there is a website offering up MP4 tracks with audio that is supposed to trigger a reaction in your brain the same as the drug listed in it's description..Including LSD,Marijuana,Peyote..and even the apparently popular "orgasm"
Stating "forget the illegal drugs" this site offers up "legal high's" to teens with nothing but an Ipod and a dark room.. I did some research on the web for this product named "I-Doser" and there has been scientific research done which states that altering brainwaves with these audio tracks are extremely harmful. Youtube even has "reaction" video's that go along with kids Dosing themselves with these audio tracks.. Some kids seem tranquil for the first few moments and then wake up screaming..others begin laughing uncontrollably..
There is a doctor that stated that the effects are quite probable..For instance.. If you were to put a q-tip passed the inside of the ear canal..You trigger a cough reaction..The doctor compares the audio tracks to the same reaction except your literally altering what that reaction should be using frequencies.
Just found this interesting.. It's all over the web now..but it's nearly ridiculous the lengths that companies will go.. I understand marketing..put out a product that will be used by a wide array of people.. SURE!..however altering someone's brainwaves using a set of frequencies should probably be left to the U.S Government. check it out for yourself..I doser
On that note..when I read this I starting day-dreaming about my neighbors house.. Two years ago there were picnics and Friday night parties. The lawn was kept up and the house was something at this point in my life to be admired. Last year they couldn't afford the taxes and the mortgage payments etc..the house was deserted..As it stands now..empty..not a lick of copper in the house.plaster walls have fallen apart and oddly enough gutters have fallen..The grass has grown into tall dead straw.. ..This goes along with what JPT talks about..This family spent years probably trying to afford this "patch of land" for their family to grow. Creature comforts are still around..bicycles and rusted lawnmowers etc are slowly digging their own grave..Items that the family have obtained over the years and meant a lot to them..left behind..Memories.. As mindless as this seems..It's all valid. ..You find yourself walking through the local stores..and you drool over the price of that new end-table.. or the new microwave oven with charcoal filter that would look nice over the stove for SURE!!.. But do you ever think about what that item will mean either years from now..or ...when your gone? ..No.. You think it's on sale for 30% off.. Items like that get left behind either when you expire or ..your forced to leave "your land" ..and it makes it's own mark in history.. Someone see's said Microwave oven and they can almost distinguish what kind of person you were..they see a volleyball and a tricycle and think of the kids that once lived there..Some explorers can almost close their eyes and "feel" or "hear" the people whom once made that space "Theirs" ..
Just sayin'.. You made me think.. Because I have been to numerous locations where I would pick up a ball or something..and just think of the last game a group of kids played.. I found a notebook with diary entries from a youthful offender who stated "he's got what he deserves" ..Item's left behind can play a big part in history.. Maybe not enough to make the History books..But it's like the saying goes it guess.. "one man's trash is another man's treasure" ..
Now babble on..
I guess we are just too entertaining! Maybe we should charge for this?
How do you know that was their land to sell? Well, as the tribal bounderies were pretty well established by the tribes (and violated by certain unscrupulous tribes, causing hate and discontent and wars and ultimatly, casinos) it was kind of easy to tell that the people living there were the owners.
Not all tribes were nomadic, some stayed within a set boundery, as long as there was food, water and shelter to survive. I admire the early tribes for their ability to work their environmental resources in the ways they did, with what they had for equipment. I still have my arrowhead chip I found years back, where some Indian had worked it into a tool to provide food , or safety, to him and his people. Its a piece of history, I'll never know who he was, and I doubt he imagined that his labor at that time would travel forward a couple hundred years to be with someone else. I also own a few ancient roman/greek coins, hand stamped, mostly illegible from erosion, but a few are still quite nice. The legionaires would band togeter, and buyr their money somewhere, with the agreement that whomever came back would dig it up and split it among the survivors. Sometimes, no one came back, and the coins just sat in the ground for hundreds of years, and untill some farmer hit it with his plow, and a couple hundred coins were uncovered.
I like to hold those small pieces of history, and imagine back to who else held them. The indian chipping away at the stobne, or the Roman Soldier, laughing with his friends, as they marched away on their fatefull last mission. Kind of puts things in perspective, in a grand sense , of life.
PS. You cant really "own" land , you just basically rent a patch for the few years you are on this spinning mud ball, then someone else eventually gets to have some piece of paper saying they can kick most other people off it. Since most property is purchased thru mortagages or loans, it could be argued that you dont really own the land untill its paid, hence the lending institution actually can claim ownership, while your agreement with them is that they wont toss you off as long as you give them money. Now, stop a minute, and look around you. Yes, JPT is talking to YOU, dear reader. look away from the computer screen a minute, look at all your belongings. I'll wait. dum de dum de dum, dum....Ok? See all your stuff, well, guess what? Eventually, in 50 to 80 years in most cases, which really isnt all that long when you get older (like me), you will have passed on, and all your stuff will go to someone else. What are they going to do with it? Do they REALLY want that cute, clever statue you like so much? Or all those cds, dvds, books? The programs will be far outdated. No, most that your loved ones will take are a few memorable trinkets and some pictures, sentimental value. Unless you got some expensive stuff they want to sell, or they need a couch and yours is better than the one the currently have, like that. Most of your stuff will be sold or tossed out by the next generation. And what memoribilia they do keep, will be lost on the generation after that- how many of you have pictures of your great great grandparents? Sure, a few will treasure them, and some may survive several generations, but for the most part, EVERYTHING YOU OWN WILL BREAK AND/OR BE DISCARDED EVENTUALLY. Okay, by now you're thinking "JPT is off on another of his mindless babbles". But there is a point. We surround ourselves with material possessions, creature comforts, and we like to think they are going to be with us forever, but they are not. Things break, or outlive their usefullness, and eventually they slip away. Land is the same, eventually, someone else will "own" it, and use it as they wish.
Isnt this what has happened to NSH? The site had lost its usefullness to the State, and it is falling apart. Like all the other sites posted here, some people can see the faded glory (not wal mart brand) in what once was, and the macabre beauty in the decay. But it is like everything in life, it eventually will be gone.
Life is short, Kiddies. You younger ones dont yet understand, you are immortal and bulletproof. Dont put too much energy into "things". Do what you need to be comfortable and happy, and enjoy your time here on Earth.
Okay, enough dark musings from an old man. I'll end it with an upbeat, if somewhat odd note:
Isnt it odd that the "KEN AND JPT SHOW" kind of rhymes with the "REN AND STIMPY SHOW"? Dawwwwww!
let me start with buying land for beads and blankets, lets say i like a particular peice of land and think gee I would like to own that so a tribe of red people show up and say I own that land and if you want it you need to give me some of those goods you have over there and I will let you have it.... ok lets start with how do you know that land was theres to sell. did thet have a deed, was there a marker with the tribe name marked there. oh yea thats right they didn't and don't have a written language they used pictures and symbles and if the wanted to make a phone call the had to build a fire and maybe loose a blanket in the process. so maybe these early indians swindled us first.
why vikings didn't attact the indians, well the indians were nomads, they never had a place they just lived, they would live in one area for a season, then move to another and keep on moving. lets face it the vikings had a lot of drive but they weren't the brightest bulbs on the tree, I can see Svenson and Bjorn following around these indian saying. when we get to city we will attack..... after a few years they died off and that was the end of that. score one for the indians. the vikings most likely didn't settle because they couldn't afford the price for land but they could have been involed in an indian Ponzzi sceem,(i am just guessing here)
ok as much fun as this is does anyone have some NSH news, comments or questions. this seems to have become the JPT- Ken show
Man, wish I could do that with my mortgage! Imagine walking into Walmart and trading a blanket for a gas grill?
Anyway.
At the time, blankets and mules were a means of survival, so sure, trading a patch of land for some items that would help ensure survival, or increase the ability of the tribe to produce food, haul goods, etc, would have been a reasonable deal.
The Mashentucket Pequots also used stockade fences for protection, BTW. We may have brought smallpox, but they had the fence idea long before we slogged ashore. And if you ever get the chance to visit their museum, you will find some displays, the film and the "Mr Pizza" menu/write-up in particular, the very epitome of History Written by the Victor. In college, I used to hang out at the little pizza place on RT 2, and I met Skip Heywood, LONG before the Bingo hall was even concieved. The blurb says he used to"..sit there and plan for the tribe...". Well, in the several times I was there, Skip used to sit there, drink beer, and pass out. Not quite the same view they are presenting to the public.
As for history repeating itself, thats not a bad thing in many circumstances. Its only when we do not LEARN from history that we are doomed to repeat our mistakes.
The Vikings. Theres an interesting culture. The men would go off raiding, which is basically steal other peoples stuff, while the women would stay home, keep the remainder of the family alive, hunt, gather food, defend the home from other raiders, etc. Everybody things of some big, long blonde haired shirtless roaring Norseman, drinking beer with a horned helmet and an axe. In reality, the horned helms were mostly used for ceremonys, and they were too cumbersome in battle. And they werent the best tacticians- one account, they were about 5 miles inland, and came into battle with some indiginous people, so they ran back to their ship to get their mail shirts. Well, I guess running all that way and then coming BACK with that heavy armor, 80% of them died trying to get back to the fight. Dont imagine that did too much to help win the day. If they got along fine with the indians, one must ponder why? Here is a culture based on taking what they want from others, and they coexist peacefully with another culture. Only a supposition on my part, but I would think that indicates the Indians didnt HAVE anything the Vikings thought it would be worth fighting for. "Hey, Bjorn, wanna go and kill them indians over there, and steal their blankets and mule? " "Nah, Svenson, I do kinda like them beads tho." "What the Hel you gonna do with beads, glue them on your horned helmet?" (Read the last bit again, with a Muppets Swedish Chef accent!) I would imagine the let down, after sailing all this way, landing and finding a civilization, and realizing they had nothing worth taking, would be disheartening. Kind of analogous to Geraldo opening Al Capones vault ! First culture to jump the shark!
As for politically correct terms, I do have to take issue with the labels Black and White. Bullshit. 90% of the people designated "black" are really brown, very few are truly black in skin color. They should be called "Browns", if we are going to use a skin tone as a catagory. And white, unless you are an Albino, you aint white, you are tan. Caucasion? I dont even know where THAT came from, but it seems to mean the rest of us that dont fit, skin tone wise, into one of the other catagories. And it doesnt seem derogatory, so I guess thats ok.
I know an Indian woman whose skin is darker than most "black" peoples skin, but shes considered "white". Likewise, the aformentioned Albino , it seems is slightly more prevelant in "black" people than in "whites"- so go figure THAT out!
I like to call everybody "people" . Sometimes, I need to use the words associated with certain sub catagories to be more specific. Oh well. Its not to denegrate any person, people or culture based on color, heritage, or any of the other sundry buzzwords you see companies post in their "Equal Employment Opportunity" releases (Altho the Mashentuckets say they are an equal opportunity employer, who practices Indian preferance in hiring..huh?). Its just an identifier to transfer a though from my brain to yours. Nothing more, nothing less.
Now, my deep dark secret- I do have a prejudice against a certain group of people. Idiots. I hate idiots. Not uneducated people, , but people that should and do know better, but still act stupid. Pisses me off! And they come in all shapes and sizes! Short , tall, fat, skinny, upper class, lower class, educated, uneducated, black brown white yellow tan albino green orange blue....seems to be a prevelant affliction that crosses all color, culture, nationality and gender boundries. And I hate them. Jerks!
jpt. glad to get you thinking early in the am but you have to understand my soap box has casters on it and can change directtion at anytime, the truth is most of the early settlements in this country paid for the land from the indains, milford for example was paid for with beads and blankets and I belive a mule. it included most of what is now the center. they put a stockade fence all the way around the place to keep the indians out. and yea I will call the people what they are until we change everything, so its indians, portoricain, mexicain, blacks, whites, asians, arabs, australian, antarticains (I really hate these people). if you want me to start calling you something american then you need to start refuring to my culture the same way europian-american
here's another peice of info to chew on. history is written by the victor and history repeats itself.
and the Vikings were here before us and got along just fine with the indians
Wow, your inner Democrat is showing! A little passionate about the Indians in the area? A couple things in response, only because I love to argue ("an argument is a collected series of statements, intended to establish a proposition") , in a freindly manner:
1) "Indian", oh, thank you thank you THANK YOU! For not calling them "Native Americans"! The latter term was coined by the government to establish a catagory that includes indians, eskimos, and any other culture that was here prior to the europeons landing here. Why do these people need yet ANOTHER name for them, why do they need to have their cultures diluted and homoginized into a faceless catagory. That is a bigger insult then any land grab that happened, the Govt and its elected things have managed to take EVERY pre-europeon culture residing in the US, and wipe away their unique flavor, and then, to insult the rest of us ( I guess they needed to get us Europon decendants also) they veil it under "Politically Correct" bullshit, which is simply a form of censorship, telling you that YOU have to speak in a certain manner, to not offend others. Well, f**ck all the others, they dont like it, dont listen or look! Theres 360 degrees in a circle, if what you see here is offensive, look in one of the other 359! You want offensive? Go to Peopleofwalmart.com!
OK, JPT, breathe, in out in out, ok, I feel better.
2) When the Indians came here (long before the europeons) across the Bearing Land Strait, I believe it was, they were the "invading" culture. We have no record of who or what they usurped as the dominant culture when they established themselves in what is now known as the USA. Perhaps there were other human or proto-humans that were driven into extinction by said intrusion? Perhaps not. But it is a natural evolution of all species to strive for dominance, to become the "top of the food chain". It happens from insects up thru humans. The only difference, we as humans have been told that we are supposed to feel guilty when we do it. Thruout history, you will find that plants and animals have evolved and become more capable of surviving, at the cost of other species that have failed to evolve or adapt quickly enough. That is the way of things. True , the europeons did come to this land mass and establish/create their culture, and at the expense of the peoples who were here prior. As history has shown, this is what human beings do, we are constantly trying to expand. Again, history has shown that ever since a human realized the value of claiming a certain patch of dirt for whatever use he had for it, we have been trying to steal other peoples patches of dirt. Take a look at the Mideast, the Gaza strip, for a prime example of "no, this is MY patch of dirt, you get off MY patch of dirt or I will kill you!" (Why do I feel like I'm channeling Achmed the Dead Terrorist just then?) Is it right, or wrong then, that the europeons did what they did to the prior occupants? We have been trained to think that it is wrong, an atrocity, to stuff another culture onto the worst land we could find, and keep the good stuff for ourselves. From OUR cultural viewpoint, we are the bad guys for doing it. At the time, it was considerd the right thing to do. We are applying todays mores and ethics to yesterdays situation. The bottom line is that at the time, the predominant cultural moral and ethical atmosphere (and the poliTICKal atmosphere) was that putting the Indians on a reservation was the correct and humane thing to do, rather than simple eradicating them entirely. AT THAT TIME, it was considered the correct thing to do to allow the europeon infusion to grow. Thats what the people were told to think. Today, people are being told to think somewhat differently, as our culture has continued to evolve, so have our ethics and morals, altho some may suggest the ethics and morals have de-volved, but thats another argument. (PS- I loved the fact that what were basically a couple of impotent tribes have turned around, and established themselves as major players in the entertainment and political arenas! Another example of evolution ! )
3) Taking the white mans money? Have you been there recently? At least Mohegan, they have established gaming areas for different languages, Spanish and Asian, predominanty. Now, if it wasnt a sound finacial investment, why would they go to that expense? Go look around, it seems that nearly half of the visitors are Asian! I would suggest that while it was the white man that initially helped the casino flourish, it is the yellow man that is keeping it alive!
Okay, my soapbox is getting creaky, so I'm getting down now. I guess I'll finish this up by saying, Think for yourself, dont follow what people who like to consider themselves "better" than you tell you you should think, or feel. The last bastion of Independance in every person is their free will, and their ability to accept or reject cultural established dogma. Dont follow the herd.
Okay, folks, plenty of ammunition in this post/rant, sound off, let JPT hear your opinions on it!
And Ken, no offence intended to you, my friend. Your post sparked my mind early this AM, and that was a good thing! As i said, I love a good argument, where everybody can state their opinion/view/facts, and everybody can learn from it!
Thanks, guys! I will be heading to Seaside this weekend!
Haha I stopped by today and noticed some idiot had parked in the campus. Not hidden. Just there for the state cop to see
meatloaf has always been goon, I hear the american idol kids are there 2, I am sure the pitures they will take with the hotel in the forground and the golf course in the backround will be spectacular, but I am sure a few hundred years if you asked the indians if they would rather be making millions of dollors off the white man but only after we take everything you care about away stick you some where out of the way where the only way any white person would want to go near you is if we were willing to yell the old indian word for stupid white people, you all know the word "BINGO" then you can take the little money we do give you for those games andbuild a casino to get more white people to come see you. then whe will put up a course for a boring game only white guys and few others who whant to be white play. or we could have just left the indians alone and let them live in peace because they lived here first.
we had no right to start colonys and get gready and push them west untill we hit the pacific the round them up and stick them places unseen.
anyway pra minites. zimmerman is working out a new gaurd schedule, Kent Borner was of course elected intrem Chairman again, they wont give up power for a second, oh wait yes he will when they reelect him just like in the first meeting when they elected him this is just a sad joke
www.preston-ct.org
Had i known, i would have gone fown on the floor and tried to snag ya one. I was way back. It was louder'n Hell, guess I'm getting old.
JPT...get any guitar picks at the Loaf show? Im a huge collector...I can trade ya something good ...I got Picks you wouldnt belive! and speaking of the tribes...heres something to consider...The Hospital being turned into a course isnt so crazy... The Mohegans have a right away to the river on the Norwich side...if you drive by its on left across from Pondview its rough 4x4 required it runs along the property line from 12 to river...Id bet they wont just give up their land for someone else to develop and profit on...but they sure could use a golf course and club right across from the hotel/casino...they are looking for guards again there again...great chance to explore and make a cool 10$ an hour...get it while it lasts!
I was at the Sun last night for the Meatloaf show (62, and the guy still can get the place jumping. Louder'n Hell, but it was fun.) And he pointed out a guy in the crowd- Ghost Hunter Jason Dawes. Must have found Mohegan Sun wile investigating NSH! Bout all they found, for that matter.
I used to deliver a lot of stuff in that area of Bridgeport..I never really liked having to be unstrapping a load in the slums of the city..I used to get people coming up to the truck asking me random shit..Then they all speak Spanish and laugh and shit..I'm not racial profile expert or anything..Just saying your right.. not the most comfortable area for a white guy with mistakable tattoo's across his throat..
finally went to seaside, its a cool place from the outside, beautiful location and setting but inside the main building is sorta boring honestly. most of it is just offices and classrooms, a few nurses offices and closets but most of it it sorta new looking. didnt really get any "vibes" from inside either. i will go again when i can take a bunch of pictures and maybe evps.
as far as remington i would love to go there but i work with someone who lived right down the street and his unle worked there for ever. he said the neighborhood is very dangerous, lotta gang stuff and drugs and if you leave a car there, cross your finger and pray its still there when you get back. other than that supposed to be a hell of an exploration.
Interesting..I had heard a rumor the place bit the big one last year..I don't travel that way to much anymore..I don't like the highway over there at all..it seems to me that anytime I drive south of milford I blow out a tire on a two ft deep pot hole in the middle of the highway..lol. Remington was a good explore when I did it a few years back..I think it was even before those Ghost Adventure douches went. There is also Winchester Arms which is quite cool looking..fortress like. After my Sunburn subsides I hope to put my explorer shoes back on..there's a bunch of places to see now that the economy has swept them all out of the business districts..Factories and warehouses are popping up everywhere with out of business signs..Sure they may not be as glorious as our favorite locations..But I once explored a school which was shut down for asbestos and mold..The place had the coolest swimming pool and a bunch of town history stuff in it..almost like a museum..but with big "BIO-HAZARD" signs littering the property..lol
remington is still there, saw it the other day, makes a nice foundatin to the cell tower, I am waiting till after the vibes crap that goes on near there because thats when the cops sweep out the bums and then the dumb asses from MA, and VT like to park to get there car radios liberated. after the vibes the cops go back to not caring about the place.
I believe Remington has since been demolished. According to recent photosets of fellow U.E the building is a pile of bricks. I could be wrong i guess. Winchester however still stands and is in amazing shape.
As far as building a golf course where NSH stands.. It would prove to not be as profitable as one would think..I will be there all day yelling at funny shoed jerks while I smoke a cigarette on the greens.
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